The girl thought to have probably the most direct information of Jeffrey Epstein’s decades-long sex-trafficking operation claims there was no shopper listing, no blackmail scheme and — to her information — no high-profile Epstein associates who dedicated illicit acts in reference to the infamous sex-offender’s crimes.
That is in keeping with an account supplied by Epstein’s convicted co-conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell to a high official of the U.S. Division of Justice throughout a extremely uncommon two-day interview session final month, in keeping with a transcript and audio of the dialog launched Friday by the DOJ.
“There isn’t a listing,” Maxwell advised Deputy Lawyer Common Todd Blanche. “I am not conscious of any blackmail. I by no means heard that. I by no means noticed it, and I by no means imagined it.”
Maxwell advised Blanche that in her time with Epstein — which ranged from the early Nineteen Nineties to the mid-2000s — she by no means witnessed nor heard of any inappropriate or legal exercise by President Donald Trump, former President Invoice Clinton, nor any of the well-known males who related to Epstein, in keeping with the transcript.
Trump, Maxwell mentioned, was cordial and a “gentleman in all respects” in all of her interactions with him. She described Clinton as a “actually extraordinary” man and a “improbable ex-president,” in keeping with the transcript of the conferences, which befell on the U.S. Lawyer’s Workplace in Tallahassee, Florida.
The 63-year outdated Maxwell, who has been incarcerated since her arrest in 2020, additionally claimed she had been misidentified by a key witness at her legal trial and insisted she was not concerned within the sexual exploitation of minors.
“I did introduce him to ladies. I did, however not underage ladies,” she mentioned. “And I did search for masseuses, I did. I went to spas and if I met someone who mentioned she was a masseuse, I didn’t verify their credentials.”
Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell attend de Grisogono Sponsors The 2005 Wall Avenue Live performance Collection Benefitting Wall Avenue Rising, with a Efficiency by Rod Stewart at Cipriani Wall Avenue on March 15, 2005 in New York Metropolis. (Picture by Joe Schildhorn/Patrick McMullan through Getty Photographs)
Patrick Mcmullan/Patrick McMullan through Getty Picture
Blanche — who beforehand served as a private protection legal professional to President Donald Trump — introduced his intention to talk with Maxwell in a social media post final month, because the Trump administration sought to quell the self-inflicted controversy surrounding its choice to not launch the federal government’s investigative recordsdata on Epstein, after repeatedly promising to take action.
The Division of Justice — in an unsigned memo launched final month explaining its choice — mentioned {that a} “systematic overview” revealed no incriminating client list and no proof “that would predicate an investigation into uncharged third events.”
Maxwell was granted restricted immunity for the interview with Blanche — that means nothing she mentioned may very well be used towards her, except she lied. She and her attorneys signed the settlement on the outset of every day of the interview session, the transcript exhibits.
Maxwell is at present serving a 20-year jail sentence for aiding and taking part in Epstein’s trafficking of underage women, which concerned a scheme to recruit younger ladies and women for massages of Epstein that turned sexual. Federal prosecutors in New York mentioned Maxwell helped Epstein recruit, groom and finally abuse women as younger as 14.
Regardless of her conviction at trial in 2021 — the place she declined to take the witness stand — Maxwell claimed in her interview with Blanche that she had been wrongly accused and didn’t obtain a good trial. She maintained, as she had completed beforehand in a 2016 deposition in a civil case, that she by no means recruited anybody underage to therapeutic massage Epstein and by no means witnessed or participated in any legal acts, in keeping with the transcript.
“I’ve no reminiscence … of getting seen anyone that resembles a younger little one, let’s name it what it’s, at that home giving him a therapeutic massage in any respect,” Maxwell mentioned, in reference to Epstein’s Palm Seashore residence.
“I noticed him with plenty of masseuses. I by no means noticed a single masseuse ever look sad or not come again or no matter,” Maxwell mentioned. “So any time I noticed anyone with him, they have been joyful to be with him.”
Maxwell was indicted in July 2020, in the course of the first Trump administration. Her trial occurred in late 2021, whereas President Joe Biden was within the White Home.
Federal prosecutors charged Maxwell with perjury for alleged lies she advised in the course of the 2016 deposition. And the federal government repeatedly assailed her credibility throughout her legal case, citing her “willingness to lie openly below oath about her conduct,” in keeping with court docket information.
The perjury counts towards her have been finally dropped after her conviction on the extra severe costs.
Following the discharge of the interview transcript, Brittany Henderson, an legal professional who has represented scores of Epstein victims, mentioned Maxwell’s testimony ought to carry little weight.
“Ghislaine Maxwell was federally indicted on two perjury counts because of her testimony throughout her civil deposition. Having been convicted of intercourse trafficking, she is now in jail presumably hoping that she’s going to obtain a pardon from President Trump,” Henderson mentioned in a press release. “I am unable to think about that her testimony will probably be given a lot weight by anybody with any information in anyway of her involvement with Jeffrey Epstein.”
In a press release, Maxwell’s legal professional, David Oscar Markus, mentioned that Maxwell “is harmless and by no means ought to have been tried, a lot much less convicted, on this case. She by no means dedicated or participated in sexual abuse towards minors, or anybody else for that matter.”
“The supplies newly launched by the Division of Justice make this clear. Ms. Maxwell answered each query. She didn’t refuse to reply and didn’t dodge any query,” Markus mentioned within the assertion.
Blanche’s assembly with Maxwell got here simply days after the Justice Division fired Maurene Comey, a federal prosecutor in New York with probably the most detailed information of the case. Comey, the daughter of former FBI Director James Comey, led the legal prosecution of Maxwell.
The tone of the dialog appeared cordial and non-confrontational, a overview of the transcript exhibits, with Blanche often permitting area for Maxwell’s prolonged critiques of the accounts of her accusers.
“I do not need you to be burdened,” Blanche advised Maxwell just a few hours into the interview. “I would like you to simply inform the reality the very best you may. So I do not need you to be burdened by what individuals mentioned at trial or what, you realize, the press says about you.”
Blanche — the highest deputy to U.S. Lawyer Common Pamela Bondi –indicated that the aim of the Maxwell assembly was to find out if she had “details about anybody who has dedicated crimes towards victims,” in keeping with a July 22 assertion posted to social media by the DOJ.
Based on sources conversant in inner deliberations that preceded the assembly with Maxwell, Blanche was inspired by some high administration officers to hunt info that would result in legal investigations that may quiet the outrage from a few of Trump’s most vocal supporters.
“The FBI and the DOJ will hear what she has to say,” Blanche wrote within the submit. “Till now, no administration on behalf of the Division had inquired about her willingness to fulfill with the federal government. That modifications now.”
The transcript confirms earlier ABC Information reporting that it was Maxwell’s authorized staff that initiated the request for the assembly.
“That is true and I did converse to [my lawyer] … and did inform him that I might be very eager to speak to anybody as a result of nobody from the federal government at any time ever … because the inception of the case, so courting again to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and I, certainly, I imagine ever reached out to me at any time to even converse to me,” Maxwell mentioned.
Maxwell appealed her conviction however her makes an attempt have to date been unsuccessful. She now has a pending utility earlier than the U.S. Supreme Courtroom to overview her conviction. Her attorneys have said that they haven’t but requested President Trump to commute her sentence or to pardon her, however that Maxwell “would welcome any reduction.”
Blanche was accompanied by an FBI agent and one other DOJ official and Maxwell was with three of her attorneys, in keeping with the transcript.
The bizarre assembly involving the nation’s second-ranking legislation enforcement official and a convicted sex-trafficker evoked a powerful response from some victims of Epstein and Maxwell.
Annie Farmer, one of many witnesses who testified for the prosecution at Maxwell’s trial, advised a federal court docket final week that she and different victims “unequivocally object to any potential leniency that the federal government could also be contemplating for Maxwell.”
Throughout 9 hours of questioning over two days, Maxwell was quizzed by Blanche about dozens of well-known individuals — politicians, enterprise titans and Hollywood stars — who had beforehand been named as having related to Epstein. The inquiries began broadly — with Blanche asking if Maxwell or Epstein knew the individuals — earlier than asking if any of the excessive profile figures had completed something improper. And in every occasion, Maxwell indicated that she had by no means witnessed nor heard about any alleged wrongdoing, the transcript exhibits
Markus advised reporters after the conferences concluded that his shopper had been requested by Blanche about “100 completely different individuals.”
“She did not maintain something again,” Markus mentioned.
Amongst these Blanche inquired about, in keeping with the transcript, have been tech billionaires Invoice Gates, Reid Hoffman and Elon Musk; political figures Ehud Barak, Robert Kennedy Jr. and former U.S. Sen. George Mitchell; and celebrities Kevin Spacey, Chris Tucker and Naomi Campbell.
The rumored existence of an apocryphal “Epstein shopper listing” has lengthy fueled hypothesis of a “deep state” cover-up to guard an elite cabal of alleged individuals in Epstein’s crimes. A number of the most vocal purveyors of the speculation — together with FBI Director Kash Patel and his high deputy Dan Bongino — have since taken up outstanding posts within the Trump administration.
However Maxwell mentioned there was no such listing and that she noticed no indication that Epstein had obtained compromising info that he used to extort others.
“A person needs sexual favors, he’ll discover that. They did not have to return to Epstein for that,” Maxwell mentioned.
“[T]here is no listing. There by no means was an inventory,” she mentioned. “None that I ever heard of, none that I ever witnessed.”
Undated trial proof picture obtained December 8, 2021, from the US District Courtroom for the Southern District of New York exhibits British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell and US financier Jeffrey Epstein in Queen’s log cabin at Balmoral.
US District Courtroom for the Southern District of New York/AFP through Getty Photographs
At one level within the interview, Maxwell likened the search to search out others complicit in Epstein’s crimes to a darkish interval in early American historical past.
“In order that narrative that was created after which constructed upon, and it simply mushroomed into what — principally this is sort of a Salem witch trial. Individuals go and misplaced [sic] their minds for this factor,” she mentioned. “I imply, it is bananas.”
Vital parts of the interview have been devoted to inquiries about President Trump and ex-President Invoice Clinton.
Earlier than any allegations of sexual misconduct towards Epstein surfaced in 2005, Trump and Clinton every spoke glowingly of Epstein, and court docket information have included paperwork and testimony indicating that — at separate instances — each males flew with Epstein on his personal jets.
Clinton’s affiliation with Epstein was first famous publicly in 2002, after reporters discovered of the previous president’s journey that 12 months on Epstein’s jet for a humanitarian mission to a number of African nations. Clinton advised New York magazine by way of a spokesman on the time that “Jeffrey is each a extremely profitable financier and a dedicated philanthropist with a eager sense of worldwide markets and an in-depth information of twenty-first-century science.”
In that very same article, Trump boasted of his friendship with Epstein, saying, “I’ve identified Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific man.”
“He is plenty of enjoyable to be with. It’s even mentioned that he likes lovely ladies as a lot as I do, and plenty of of them are on the youthful aspect. Little doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life,” Trump advised the journal.
Maxwell advised Blanche she had a friendship with former President Clinton after being launched by a mutual acquaintance, she mentioned.
“President Clinton was my pal, not Epstein’s pal,” she mentioned. “President Clinton preferred me, and we received alongside terribly effectively. However I by no means noticed that heat with Mr. Epstein.”
Maxwell mentioned she had recommended to Epstein that he permit Clinton to make use of his personal jumbo-jet to fly to a number of worldwide locations in Africa, Asia and Europe within the early 2000’s, after the tip of his presidency. Clinton, Maxwell mentioned, had no explicit curiosity in Epstein aside from having the usage of his aircraft.
“They met due to me and the aircraft was due to me,” she mentioned. “I did not see President Clinton being focused on Epstein. He was only a wealthy man with the aircraft.”
Regardless of President Trump’s oft-repeated claims that Clinton had traveled greater than 20 instances to Little St. James — Epstein’s personal U.S. Virgin Islands property the place a lot of Epstein’s abuse is alleged to have occurred — Maxwell mentioned the previous president had by no means been there and would not have wished to go, as a result of he had no relationship with Epstein.
“He by no means, completely by no means went. And I could be certain of that as a result of there is not any means he would have gone. I do not imagine there’s any means that he would’ve gone to the island had I not been there. As a result of I do not imagine he had an impartial friendship, if you’ll, with Epstein,” Maxwell advised Blanche.
Invoice Clinton has beforehand mentioned by way of a spokesperson that he “knew nothing” about Epstein’s crimes, had by no means visited the island, and that every one the flights on Epstein’s plane in 2002 and 2003 have been related to work for the Clinton Basis.
As for the present president, Maxwell mentioned that she first knew of Trump by way of her late father, who bought the New York Each day Information in 1991. She mentioned she solely noticed Trump and Epstein, each native New Yorkers, collectively in social settings and by no means noticed or heard something inappropriate about Trump whereas he was with Epstein.
“I’ll have met Donald Trump at the moment as a result of my father was very pleasant with him and preferred him very a lot,” Maxwell mentioned. “And I believe, [it] ought to be mentioned that he additionally very a lot preferred [Trump’s first wife] Ivana as a result of she was additionally from Czechoslovakia the place my dad was from.”
Maxwell mentioned she solely noticed the 2 native New Yorkers, Trump and Epstein, collectively in social settings and by no means noticed or heard something inappropriate about Trump whereas he was with Epstein.
“I do not understand how they met, and I do not understand how they turned buddies. I definitely noticed them collectively and I bear in mind the few instances I noticed them collectively. However they have been pleasant. I imply, they appeared pleasant,” Maxwell mentioned.
And at a time when her authorized staff has publicly signaled her hopes for a reprieve from the president, Maxwell expressed admiration for Trump.
“And so far as I’m involved, President Trump was all the time very cordial and really form to me. And I simply need to say that I discover — I like his extraordinary achievement in turning into president now. And I like him. And I’ve all the time preferred him,” she mentioned.
“And did you ever hear Mr. Epstein or anyone say that President Trump had completed something inappropriate with masseuses or with anyone in your world? Blanche requested.
“Completely by no means, in any context,” Maxwell replied.
Printed experiences within the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal final month indicated that the choice to not launch the Epstein recordsdata got here after President Trump was knowledgeable in Might that his title was amongst those who appeared a number of instances within the paperwork. The president has denied that he was advised his title appeared within the recordsdata.
The looks of a reputation within the Epstein recordsdata will not be proof of illicit exercise.
President Trump has mentioned he ended his affiliation with Epstein earlier than any allegations of sexual abuse have been raised in Florida within the mid 2000s.
Trump mentioned in 2019, after Epstein’s arrest for little one intercourse trafficking, that he hadn’t spoken to him in 15 years. Extra not too long ago, the president has claimed he cut up with Epstein after discovering Epstein was allegedly poaching staff from the spa at Mar-a-Lago, the president’s personal membership in Palm Seashore.
Maxwell was escorted from her jail cell in Tallahassee to the U.S. Lawyer’s Workplace for the 2 days of conferences with Blanche. Per week later, she was transferred to a minimum-security federal jail camp for ladies in Texas, with no official clarification for the transfer.
Maxwell is the Oxford-educated daughter of Robert Maxwell, the larger-than-life publishing baron whose rags-to-riches story captivated England. She lived an extravagant life among the many British elite till her father’s enterprise empire collapsed within the wake of his loss of life in 1991. She relocated to New York on the lookout for a recent begin and was quickly seen within the firm of the mysterious multimillionaire Epstein.
Epstein was arrested in July 2019 and charged in a federal indictment with conspiracy and little one intercourse trafficking. He died in custody a month later, whereas awaiting trial. His loss of life was dominated a suicide by hanging.
