Jon Wiener: From The Nation journal, that is Begin Making Sense. I’m Jon Wiener. Later within the present: Robert Reich says the origin of our troubles with Trump and MAGA return to the sixties
he says it was our mistake, beginning with the sixties actions – that we created “an enormous political void that may finally be stuffed by Donald Trump’s offended, bigoted cultural populism.” His new memoir is “Coming Up Brief” — we’ll discuss it, later within the hour. However first, how will we face how dangerous issues at the moment are, whereas additionally understanding the explanations for hope – and the alternatives for motion? Katrina Vanden Heuvel, editor and publiser of The Nation, will remark – in a minute.
[BREAK]
Katrina vanden Heuvel, longtime editorial director and writer of The Nation, has returned to work this week as editor of the journal. She’s additionally been a columnist for the Washington Submit. She’s written for the New York Instances, the LA Instances, and The Guardian, the place she’s now a daily contributor. Katrina, welcome again
Katrina vanden Heuvel: Thanks, Jon. , if I would preempt you, which I’ve achieved too usually on discuss TV — These are excessive instances, and I felt that, whereas there will likely be a successor to me, somebody youthful, I felt at this second a belief in The Nation, each as a belief of historical past, a trusted impartial publication, at a time when impartial media is underneath horrible stress. And I’m not fetishizing historical past, I’m not tethered to historical past, however I do draw from historical past to know what is occurring at present. I consider that it’s an unparalleled, harmful, perilous time. On the similar time, I really feel a resilience, having studied and lived by horrible instances, and I believe that permits me to search out the writers and thinkers.
And in addition my sister used to say her associates liked ‘Sure!’, exclamation level, and she or he stated they love The Nation, however they considered it as “No!” exclamation level, perhaps. However I do suppose this can be a time to raise up what’s taking place round this nation and the world that provide various affirmative initiatives, as a result of we will’t all dwell on doom and gloom, and doom scrolling all day. We’d like, I hate to say, the imaginative and prescient, however to have another sense of what’s working and classes to be drawn, however in methods which can be alive and vibrant. And I actually really feel devoted to that.
And the chief editor, who will turn out to be John Nichols, can be somebody I’ve labored with. We’ve devised the honour roll over time, folks doing good issues in dangerous instances, good instances, not so good instances, and drawing that from the thirties, Nineteen Thirties, from the journal. There’s a brand new politics that The Nation in some methods has discovered a tie to, and we’re going to actually take a look at that in these coming months and years.
JW: In fact, the publishing panorama, as you’ve instructed, is so much darker now than whenever you left day-to-day modifying in 2019. Simply to remind everyone, the writer of the Washington Submit stood subsequent to Trump at his inauguration. One other of his firms paid $40 million to license a Melania Trump documentary. That’s the Washington Submit’s proprietor. A number of of their most vital writers left in protest.
Extra just lately, CBS fired its prime late night time host, Stephen Colbert, whose nightly ridicule of Trump has been relentless and hilarious. And the father or mother firm of CBS, Paramount, paid Trump $16 million for, in quotes, his ‘presidential library’ after he sued them for a 60 Minutes interview with Kamala Harris.
And earlier than that, ABC information paid Trump 15 million, once more for his presidential library, to settle a defamation lawsuit over a report by George Stephanopoulos. That’s the Washington Submit, CBS and ABC.
And a few methods a lot worse is the Republicans in Congress have defunded NPR and PBS. The Company for Public Broadcasting is closing. And meaning many dozens of public radio and TV stations, particularly within the much less populous purple states, will go darkish. That could be a totalitarian transfer that’s so much greater than networks paying money to Trump. And that makes impartial media, together with The Nation, extra vital than ever. It deepens our duties.
And as you’ve stated, the toughest half is going through how dangerous issues are, whereas we’re additionally seeing the explanations for hope and for motion. Doing each of these issues concurrently is tough, however as you say, you’ve had some expertise with this.
KVH: Our longtime contributor, you knew him effectively, Jon, Gore Vidal used to explain The Nation as ‘an early alert warning system’ to what’s coming over the transom, over the fortifications. I consider my colleague, Mark Hartsgaard, whose e-book ‘On Bended Knee’ was concerning the media throughout the Reagan period. That is worse, however I might counsel that we revisit the 1996 Nationwide Leisure Sequence. The Nation did the primary centerfold, which confirmed GE, ABC, Information Corp — It confirmed that information was a cog in a company construction, which had regulatory enterprise in Washington DC. We’re seeing that exposed painfully crystal clear within the Trump years.
The independence of a publication is marked not simply by its monetary state, however it’s in these instances largely outlined by those that need to be near a president who thrives on corruption and spectacle and enter into his personal piggybank. However I do suppose that the company media has proven how craven it’s in these final months, and it’s as much as The Nation and impartial media, to not converse reality to energy, Jon, as a result of I consider these in energy know the reality, however to show the reality — in order that odd folks, good folks, can seize that information and mobilize. As a result of for those who don’t know, you don’t know what you’re mobilizing for. I do suppose The Nation does play a crucial function in these instances. Simply briefly, we did a variety of reporting on how Rupert Murdoch purchased his approach to finish the intense cross-ownership guidelines. These are going to be obliterated within the subsequent few weeks. And we have now his transfer to LA: the LA Pest goes to open quickly.
JW: You’re speaking right here about Rupert Murdoch’s announcement that he’s launching a California version of the New York Submit proper wing tabloid, and that is imagined to occur in early 202,6 primarily based in Los Angeles, referred to as the California Submit.
KVH: I believe there’s very top quality journalism being achieved at The Nation at different publications which can be impartial. I’m on the Hillman Media Judging Committee and we see that yearly. It’s the enterprise mannequin, Jon, that’s nonetheless very perilous and harmful, as we see how the company media has capitulated, anticipatorily capitulated, and opened the sluice gates for extra peril to the media remaining.
JW: We have to keep in mind that what Trump is doing shouldn’t be common, even amongst his personal supporters, proper now. His tariffs are the principle factor that’s been driving down his approval rankings and inflicting his 2024 coalition to unravel. Let me simply summarize a number of the latest knowledge from the Economist-YouGov ballot. His total approval ranking simply within the six months since he took workplace: down 21 factors. Down 44 factors with 18 to 29 12 months olds. Approval down 30 factors with Hispanics since he took workplace. 29 factors down with Independents. Down 20 factors with folks making lower than 100 thousand {dollars} a 12 months. And it’s not simply the financial system, inflation, the excessive costs for meals and lease. He’s underwater on nearly all the problems. Many extra folks disapprove than approve of what he’s achieved on immigration, deportations, schooling, social applications. On healthcare, his approval ranking is 35%. So we have now large alternatives right here — and in addition large duties.
KVH: I agree. We have now alternative. We have now accountability. These numbers are exhilarating. It doesn’t imply that these numbers transfer in a straight line path. I believe the city corridor conferences, which we’re going to cowl this August, will expose lawmakers to anger and despair, and should open issues up. But it surely calls for an opposition social gathering which speaks on to folks’s lives and affords another in order that it’s not one and a half events. I do suppose the media performs a job right here. There are impartial media exhibiting the despair and the disillusion, however Trump dominates the information. He nonetheless dominates the sector and that should change. I believe we’re seeing various leaders converse in ways in which do contact folks.
JW: I need to discuss that – as a result of, whereas the information is horrible, it’s not all dangerous. Most likely the brightest gentle within the present darkish panorama is Mamdani, the Social Democrat who beat former governor Andrew Cuomo to win the Democratic nomination for mayor of New York Metropolis. What has The Nation needed to say about his marketing campaign?
KVH: Nicely, you’ll see extra subsequent week when the interview John Nichols and I did – the hour interview on the Little Flower Cafe in Astoria, ‘Little Flower’ being the nickname for Zorhan Mamdani’s favourite mayor, Fiorella LaGuardia. What Mamani has achieved, and I noticed him on Sunday with Elizabeth Warren, who got here to marketing campaign for him, is make affordability a central premise of a progressive panorama. It’s not the banks, however affordability of groceries, of transportation, of housing. And he’s achieved it with a smile and an class and a use of social media that’s really unparalleled. It reveals, it reminds us that The Nation wants, sure, sincerity, but additionally levity, I imply with a objective. And I’m impressed.
He got here again from Uganda the place he went to see his mother and father and grandparents to introduce them to his new spouse. However he got here again and he met with a household of the non-public safety cop who had been killed within the horrible shootings just a few days earlier than, when he’d been in Uganda. And he did it with a humanity that crossed the politicization and weaponization of such incidents.
I believe he has an actual probability and he’s introduced collectively an excellent coalition. Your viewers might know of ranked alternative voting. It didn’t work effectively in 2021 in New York Metropolis. We endorsed 1, 2, 3, however one was Zorhan and two was Brad Lander, who’s been a very long time progressive advocate on the town council, now controller. The Working Households Get together the subsequent day did the identical lineup of Zorhan and Brad Lander. What Brad Lander did although in coalition with Zorhan is essential to understanding the success of ranked alternative voting.
JW: And it’s not simply deep blue New York Metropolis the place we’ve had some hanging progressive victories, simply within the final month. Let’s discuss Seattle. Seattle, the house of Microsoft and Amazon, the place a lady named Katie Wilson is exhibiting that Mamdani shouldn’t be alone. I didn’t learn about her till I learn The Nation.
KVH: That’s a part of the function of The Nation in a method. However Katie Wilson, that may be a robust metropolis, however she has taken it on by taxation points, the referendum, the large tech, excessive tech companies, and she or he is a transportation professional. The mayor of Boston who’s 36 goes to be reelected. So there are these across the nation, and I do suppose with gridlock and worse in Washington DC it’s vital to have champions on the metropolis and state stage.
JW: Way more superb than Seattle or Boston: let’s discuss Omaha, a metropolis in one of many reddest states that has had a Republican mayor who’s held workplace since 2013; gained her final race by 30 factors. Nonetheless, a Democrat, John Ewing Jr., beat her in Might by practically 13 factors. When you do the arithmetic there, that’s a shift of 43 factors. In Omaha, a purple metropolis. Once more, I realized about this from The Nation. What can Democrats study from John Ewing Jr’s victory in Omaha?
KVH: Nicely, initially, Nebraska has an excellent Democratic chair who’s written for us, Jane Kleb. You’re a historian. I’m not. However that area of the nation had farmer-labor alliances. It was a populist a part of the nation, and he’s retrieving these traditions in a contemporary method. So I believe he’s working a populist multiracial marketing campaign within the large cities, in Omaha a populist marketing campaign, which leads with the bread and butter points. And I believe that there’s a gap for that and he’s exhibiting it.
So when folks say it could actually’t be achieved — I believe subsequent is Idaho. I’m going to take again Frank Church’s seat. The well-known story: Eric Foner emailed –nice historian — emailed me one night time and stated,’ can somebody get one thing to Bernie Sanders? Can he cease speaking about Denmark?’ Eric Foner in the course of the night time wrote an open letter, which we revealed, it was to Bernie, about retrieving your individual nation’s radical traditions, which exist — and are usually not so odd and fringy. They’re a part of the custom, and I believe that a part of The Nation’s mission is to spotlight what’s new however has roots in a historical past.
JW: I believe Trump is aware of he’s in serious trouble within the midterms subsequent fall. He is aware of how unpopular he’s. He is aware of how tiny his the Republican margin is within the Home, and the way seemingly that the Democrats can win the Home. I believe that explains this authoritarian scheme of his in Texas to eradicate 5 Democratic congressional seats by an unprecedented reapportionment transfer. John Nichols has a bit up at The Nation proper now on the web site that claims,’Consultant democracy will dwell or die in Texas.’
KVH: It’s an indication of how authoritarian, not solely Trump is, however a number of the governors, who had been ramming by laws to rig the system. That’s not a democratic system that Abbott is attempting to create, and it’s occurred earlier than. And you’re looking at individuals who rigged the principles. And by the way in which, it’s additionally the anniversary, I believe the sixtieth of the Voting Rights Act. Making that tougher to do? That’s referred to as democracy, and that’s how they run. That’s how they rule, and it’s one thing we have now to show and rally folks to know how harmful it’s as a result of it’s a slippery slope. You start in Texas, you’re going to see it across the nation, and we’re asking one of many legislators, a very good lawyer who fled, to put in writing for The Nation concerning the expertise.
JW: In conclusion right here, you’ve simply returned to the editor’s desk at The Nation this week. What do you see the schedule for the subsequent weeks and months and 12 months for what we used to name ‘America’s oldest weekly’?
KVH: Nicely, we’re doing occasions to mark the 160th anniversary – from an occasion at Moral Tradition honoring the intern program, which Victor Navasky began greater than 40 years in the past. Somebody wrote to me at present that they worth The Nation, not simply due to the phrases we publish, however due to the folks we’ve sort of introduced by the media and journalistic system. In order that will likely be attention-grabbing.
After which we have now Kaveh Akbar, our poetry editor, with Judy Collins.
After which we’re heading to San Francisco the place I hope to be in dialog with Jerry Brown, and we’ll have Elie Mystal, our nice justice correspondent, and Rebecca Solnit and others in dialog about this second.
However I additionally flip again to my desk and I’m going to edit Jamie Galbraith on parallels between Reagan and Trump on the financial system, which is one thing to consider. And a bit concerning the New York Metropolis political scene, which has modified actually in attention-grabbing methods. The Working Households Get together, which The Nation helped create in 1998, is now thought-about type of the senior man on the road. And DSA, which you’ve seen over time, Democratic Socialists for America has had a variety of power and enter.
I do suppose that I’m a deviation at The Nation as a result of we do have a youthful technology of democratic socialists. I stay a Rooseveltian 2.0. Lina Kahn, the nice anti-monopolist professor, former head of the FTC, had an op-ed the opposite day, I want we’d revealed it — about Zorhan and small enterprise. We must always not cede small enterprise to the appropriate. And his work on halal vans and bodegas have redefined in some measure what small companies do.
Certainly one of our contributors, I’ve stated this earlier than, Norman Thomas, a socialist we endorsed in 1932, stated, ‘there aren’t any misplaced causes. There are solely causes ready to be gained.’ However I do suppose that realism is vital, but additionally resilience. I believe it’s a really robust time for lots of people and we have now to be understanding of that — in order that we give folks, not the week of Trump, we try this, however we additionally give them the week of Resistance 2.0.
JW: Katrina Vanden Heuvel, she’s Writer of The Nation — And now, as soon as once more, editor of The Nation Journal. Katrina, thanks for all of your work, and thanks for speaking with us at present.
KVH: Thanks.
[BREAK]
Jon Wiener: Now it’s time to speak with Robert Reich about how we acquired right here and what we will do now. He’s achieved so much in his life: He’s a legendary instructor at Berkeley. He was Secretary of Labor underneath Invoice Clinton. He’s written 18 books, which have been translated into 22 languages. His articles have appeared in The New Yorker, The Atlantic, The New York Instances, The Washington Submit, and The Wall Road Journal. He’s a columnist now for The Guardian. And a variety of us learn his day by day publication at Substack or comply with him on Instagram or TikTok or YouTube, the place he’s a star. And he has a brand new e-book out: It’s referred to as Coming Up Brief: A Memoir of My America. We reached him at present in Berkeley. Robert Reich, welcome again.
Robert Reich: Nicely, good to speak to you, Jon.
JW: You name your memoir ‘a narrative of the failure of my technology.’ It’s mine too. You say it was our mistake, beginning with the sixties’ actions. We had a civil rights motion and an anti-war motion, after which within the seventies, a girls’s motion, then a homosexual rights motion, then an environmental motion. However you say one motion was lacking — and that created what you name ‘an enormous political void that may finally be stuffed by Donald Trump’s offended, bigoted, cultural populism.’ What was lacking?
RR: Nicely, in a phrase, it was the labor motion – truly, two phrases, Jon. The labor motion had been round clearly in matches and begins over 100 years, however I didn’t actually, and right here’s my confessional, I didn’t actually give it some thought in these days as a motion. Labor was there. It was large labor, there have been large firms, large companies, and there was large authorities, and it didn’t appear mandatory in a approach to take into account or to speak concerning the labor motion or to speak even concerning the working class. And I believe that that was my error. It was an error that lots of people made as a result of all of those different actions did take a lifetime of their very own, they completed an excellent deal, however by forgetting about employees and the labor motion, I believe we laid the groundwork for one thing fairly ugly.
JW: The Democrats’ nice flip away from the working class and the labor motion in fact got here within the Invoice Clinton years whenever you had been Secretary of Labor. The entire thing was fairly clear from the beginning of the Clinton marketing campaign in 1992, at the very least for those who listened to 3rd social gathering candidate, Ross Perot. You quote him in your e-book as regards to NAFTA, which George HW Bush had simply negotiated with Mexico, additionally Canada, in one of many presidential debates in ‘92, watched by 60 million folks. That’s about the identical quantity that watched the debates this 12 months. Perot defined why he was towards NAFTA. “When you’re paying $13 or $14 an hour for manufacturing facility employees and you’ll transfer your manufacturing facility south of the border and pay $1 an hour, don’t have any healthcare, no surroundings or air pollution controls, no retirement, and also you don’t care about something however making a living, there will likely be an enormous sucking sound coming from the south.” At this time, that appears apparent. How did it appear to you in 1992?
RR: In 1992, Jon? I used to be nervous about that. I believed that, and I put it in barely in several phrases. I nervous that American employees would lose bargaining leverage. They had been already shedding bargaining energy. I talked about it contained in the, in coed incipient Clinton administration, however I misplaced these inside debates. It was very clear, Invoice Clinton and different folks round him wished to embrace NAFTA, and I did what I used to be instructed to do, and I believe on reflection, I don’t know whether or not that was the appropriate factor to do. I argued as a lot as I may, and I additionally argued towards Chinese language accession to the World Commerce Group. In truth, I used to be nervous that that may have an excellent greater, primarily a sucking sound. I misplaced a variety of the arguments internally, Jon, I’ve written about that. You and I’ve talked about that, and I suppose from the place we’re proper now, I see that every one of this contributed to, it didn’t lead in inevitably to Donald Trump, but it surely contributed to the emergence of Donald Trump.
JW: The massive debate in American politics actually for the final 50 years has been framed by the Republicans. They are saying extra authorities is dangerous. Freedom from large authorities is sweet, freedom for the market. You’ve been arguing with this place for a very long time now. Remind us what your reply has been.
RR: I’ve stated it so usually. It simply, it’s type of automated and I don’t suppose folks even hear as a result of I’m so predictable. The query shouldn’t be roughly authorities. The query is, who’s authorities for? Is it working for common working folks and the poor, or is it working for the individuals who have some huge cash and a variety of sources and massive companies? And definitely, during the last many years, authorities has achieved an increasing number of on behalf of the latter, that’s large companies and the rich as a result of that’s the place the cash has come from for campaigns. That’s the place the legalized bribery that I discuss within the e-book has actually occurred. And if we need to, and we have now to, and this isn’t if we need to, we have now to disabuse ourselves from that sort of habit. And the Democratic Get together has acquired to surrender the company and monetary Democrats which have been so vital to the social gathering by way of cash however have eroded the social gathering’s ethical authority.
JW: If you had been Secretary of Labor, you probably did get Congress to lift the minimal wage simply earlier than the ‘96 elections. What had it been and what did they do?
RR: Nicely, they raised the minimal wage to, I consider it was $5 and—
JW: 15.
RR: 15 cents, which I imply, it doesn’t, from at present’s standpoint, it doesn’t appear to be something, but it surely had been $4 and 25 cents. It was a Republican Senate and a Republican Home. They didn’t need to elevate the minimal wage. And principally, it wasn’t me, I imply, I did attempt to lead that cost on the hill, however what actually did it was that the majority Individuals and the Republicans noticed the polls, the identical polls that everyone else noticed. And it was not only one ballot. It was ballot after ballot after ballot. Most Individuals wished the minimal wage raised, not as a result of they’d profit. They knew that they weren’t on a minimal wage, however they felt that it was the truthful factor to do. And that’s a vital a part of the story as a result of Individuals have this very deep-seated sense of what’s truthful and what’s not truthful. I noticed it firsthand once I was labor secretary and earlier than and after and since. And we will’t merely assume that everyone is cynical like Donald Trump, or everyone is unfavorable and imply spirited like Donald Trump. No, I believe Individuals actually are basically good and truthful.
JW: It’s been 16 years since Congress raised the federal minimal wage. It’s been $7 and 25 cents. You stated the Republicans supported it in 1996, and that was as a result of so many Individuals supported elevating the minimal wage. Don’t so many Individuals nonetheless assist elevating the minimal wage? 83% say the present $7 and 25 cents fee shouldn’t be sufficient to dwell on. How a lot ought to it’s in 2023? 65% of voters stated $15 an hour. Youthful folks favor much more.
RR: At this time, you’re completely proper. I imply the identical proportion, if no more, need the minimal wage raised. It hasn’t been raised since 2009. That is loopy. We are able to’t anticipate. Most individuals can’t probably dwell on at present’s minimal wage. It needs to be at the very least $15. And for those who truly managed for each inflation and productiveness enhancements, it will be nearer to twenty or $25 an hour.
JW: So after Clinton, in fact, then got here Obama, there was that speech in 2004 that he gave on the Democratic Nationwide Conference that made him an prompt hero. He stated, “there’s not a liberal America and a conservative America. There’s a United States of America.” Now at present, that appears completely flawed, doesn’t it?
RR: It does. It appears quaint, if not flawed. I imply, how can there be not a liberal and never a conservative America? And I believe what Obama was attempting to do, and he did it with such grace, and he did, he continued to attempt to do it. And that’s to inform us that we’re a part of one society, one experiment in democracy, and we shouldn’t enable folks to attempt to divide us. I imply, look, let’s be clear right here, the divide and conquer technique has been very efficient. And it’s been utilized by, I’m positive Vladimir Putin has been utilizing it. And I’m positive additionally the oligarchy of America has used it since you see, for those who can divide Individuals and make them suppose that they’re actual enemies are the folks on the opposite facet of the political divide, then they don’t lookup and see the place all the cash and energy actually has gone in our society.
JW: Obama didn’t actually assist with this drawback in any respect. Regardless of the financial crash of 2008. He caught with Wall Road and the large banks and divide in America, deepened and after America, the 2016 elections. Bernie Sanders ran within the Democratic primaries regardless that he wasn’t a Democrat. And regardless that, as you say, he was a 74-year-old Jew from Vermont. You say, if the DNC had not tipped the scales towards him by rigging marketing campaign financing in favor of Hillary, Bernie would’ve been the social gathering’s nominee in 2016. How do you’re feeling about Bernie?
RR: I like Bernie. He’s one in all my heroes. I don’t know the place he will get his power, his stamina, his tenacity. However he’s been there and he’s on the market, whilst we converse, he’s on the market. He’s speaking to folks. He’s telling the reality, and God bless Bernie.
JW: I need to change the topic to your educating. You taught at Harvard and then you definitely taught at Berkeley. You’ve simply retired. Harvard, in fact, the elite non-public faculty, Berkeley, the flagship public college. What variations did you see, and which did you want higher?
RR: Oh, Berkeley. I imply, Harvard is a superb establishment, clearly, however I like College of California, Berkeley. Berkeley, actually, all the College of California system is the biggest and strongest system of upward mobility in America. My college students, most of them had been first technology, first technology by way of getting a school diploma. A 3rd of them got here immediately. They transferred from group faculties. It’s an engine of upward mobility.
JW: One factor I need to ask you about that I’ve realized solely just lately, not everyone is concerned with politics the way in which we’re. In truth, most individuals aren’t very concerned with politics. They don’t comply with the information that a lot, particularly working class and poor folks. They’re preoccupied with their very own lives, their very own issues, their very own pleasures, politics for them, is type of just like the Olympics. You watch it each 4 years for a few days, perhaps you hope your staff wins. And all the hassle and all the cash that our facet places into getting the appropriate message out, a message that’s been examined, they don’t concentrate. They’re not very . They vote on obscure emotions: ‘I like him,’ or ‘he looks as if a very good man to me’ =- or they don’t vote in any respect. 89 million folks didn’t vote in 2024. That’s much more than the quantity of people that voted for Trump, 77 million.
So higher messaging, which a lot of our work goes into determining, higher messaging might not be one of the best ways to succeed in all these folks. We have to discover different modes of communication, different methods to succeed in them than the sort of politics we’ve been doing all our lives. And now you’re a star on TikTok and YouTube the place you might have 1.3 million subscribers. And on Instagram you might have 2 million followers – and Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, these are the locations the place now the place thousands and thousands of people that don’t learn the day by day newspaper or watch TV information get their data. How did you turn out to be so good at this?
RR: I don’t know. I don’t know. I actually don’t know. I’ve two sons, one in all whom named Sam has been doing a variety of social media. Sam runs an organization referred to as Dropout Tv. Have you ever seen any of that?
JW: Nope.
RR: Nicely, you’re not alone. I imply, no one our age has seen it. However younger folks, my college students, all of them know Sam. In truth, any person got here as much as me on the sidewalk simply a few days in the past and stated, I imply, “Are you Sam Reich’s father?”
However just a few years in the past, it was about 10 years in the past, Sam stated to me, “Dad, I do know you write books. You want to put in writing books. And I do know you get a variety of satisfaction out of it, however my technology is – they’re not large readers, significantly of your sort of e-book. And if you wish to attain my generations technology, you’ve acquired to do social media.”
And at that time, I barely knew what social media was, however he tutored me, he helped me. And I’ve slightly group of younger people who find themselves of their twenties and thirties who helped me do it. I couldn’t do it with out them. They’re very gifted and so they preserve me younger to the extent that anyone can try this. So sure, I imply, I nonetheless write books, therefore the e-book we’re speaking about, Coming Up Brief, however I do a variety of social media as a result of it’s a method of educating. It’s a method of connecting.
JW: I need to discuss one different factor: tall folks. Your memoir, you referred to as Coming Up Brief. It’s the thesis of your e-book that our technology did not strengthen democracy. However that’s additionally a pun about your top. You aren’t a tall particular person. I’m not a tall particular person. And also you make the purpose that the taller candidate normally wins the election. Our tallest presidents, I look them up, there’s a Wikipedia web page, ‘Presidents by top.’ Lincoln is our tallest president, six toes, 4 inches. LBJ quantity 2, 6’3” and a half, Clinton 6’3”, FDR 6’2”, Obama 6’2”, George HW Bush 6’2”, JFK 6’1”, Reagan 6’1”, Joe Biden, 6 toes even. What about Trump? In fact, Trump lies about his top. He claims to be 6’3”. There’s additionally a Wikipedia web page about this, however pictures present him standing proper subsequent to Obama, and so they’re precisely the identical top, roughly. Trump has extra hair on prime of his head, so perhaps he’s, and Obama is 6’2”. I had a professor who blamed all of the troubles of the world on what he referred to as the six-footers. Why ought to the six-footers all the time win?
RR: Nicely, that’s an excellent query. I believe there’s a variety of prejudice in our society that we don’t discuss towards quick males or in favor of tall males, and girls it’s barely totally different. However I believe that the research that I’ve learn, and I’ve been sort of on this topic, clearly I’ve a private curiosity, however I’ve been sociologically. It seems that, and there are numerous evolutionary biologists and others who suppose that we’re sort of genetically wired to decide on large folks, tall males, to be our leaders as a result of they’re, once more, by way of sort of Darwinian survival of the fittest, they’re those who can shield us. Even our language, after we discuss ‘wanting as much as any person’ or ‘any person has stature’ or I imply, there are all types of how we unconsciously are prejudicial. After which in courting, I don’t know whether or not you had this expertise, Jon. I’m very quick and there have been quite a lot of ladies who simply didn’t need to have a look at me. They didn’t need to exit with a boy who’s shorter than they had been. And that was the cruelest, the cruelest of all prejudices.
JW: Final thing: the lengthy recreation. Going again to Bernie only for a minute right here. One of many belongings you say you like about Bernie is that he exemplifies the lengthy recreation his entire life. He’s been saying the identical factor. He doesn’t have an issue staying on message. We have now midterms arising in a 12 months and a half. Then we have now an election after that. What’s the lengthy recreation for us proper now?
RR: I believe the lengthy recreation has acquired to guard our democracy, and to truly get it again, to revive and rebuild democratic establishments. Within the e-book, I discuss Donald Trump as not being the reason for our current issues, however the consequence, the fruits of many years of neglect. We took many of those establishments as a right. We deregulated. I used to be a part of an administration that deregulated Wall Road, that embraced free commerce, that didn’t pay a lot consideration as companies acquired greater and larger and monopolized industries that didn’t actually pay a lot consideration to unions. And I believe that every one of this added as much as a, I don’t need to be reductionist right here and say it mechanically led to Trump, but it surely led to a big and disaffected and offended working class that felt appeared down upon, felt forgotten. And when any person like Trump got here alongside, and regardless that he lied by his tooth and regardless that he was a Computer virus for the rich and the billionaires, he appeared like, he acted like he cared about, and he acknowledged working class folks.
JW: Robert Reich – his new e-book is Coming Up Brief, A Memoir of My America. Bob, thanks for all of your work, and thanks for speaking with us at present.
RR: Nicely, Jon, thanks.
